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What still kills me are the guys coming in and demanding a lower lofted driver thinking it will give them more distance. on tight fairways. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. That is only if the area you are going to contact the ball moves up on the face as a result of bending, the lower portion of the face will move backwards when bent strong. Long story short, I'm about to have the 5,6,7,8 iron bent 2 degrees weaker, 9 iron 1 degree weaker, and AW 1 degree stronger. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. Most people won't hit a 2 iron off the fairway though, so they probably won't take a divot at all As far as bounce goes, do you really think a club going 100 mph is going to be affected by 2 less of bounce? What bouncedoes is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? Contact Us Add loft for distance?????? You may have heard golfers talk about how they need to use a flatter club or that they need to change their lie angle. So, I am now waiting for a major brand to market and advertise that their new, weaker lofts will add distance for most golfers. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.". After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. How much will bending an iron affect how it plays? May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. I did this several years ago and it ended up being quite expensive, so dont be me and order your custom set all at once! Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. Im contemplating a set of Mizuno MP-53 irons. But if it'll mess up the performance or whatnot, I'm not messing with it. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. Callaway MD 3 52 bent to 54 [size=4]KBS 610 S+[/size] Pros and cons? Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. The JPX-825 Pro's are all 1 degree stronger than the MP-H5's. So, I was thinking that I would have the new iron bent one degree strong so that it fits with the rest of my set. some strong lofts there, i thought you had blade type irons so, which have weaker lofts? Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. ENTER NOW! You can post now and register later. I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. So, if you really want to get better at golf, start by learning how to hold the club properly. If you really want to improve your golf, you must define where you are losing the most strokes and start there. A lot of mixing and matching Craig, Required fields are marked *. Thats not to say this exotic land doesnt bring a classy winner. Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X", Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions), Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X Where Can You Get Your Lie Angle Adjusted, Should You Use Heavier Shafts in Wedges? I do not find these to dig at all. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. Late to the party but I was just searching this topic and saw your post, I just bought an old set of mizuno's that are bent 2* strong for the exact same reason as you stated above. What I was hoping from this article was proof for that a current 46* MB/CB PW doesnt go any further than the 47/48* PWs of the past. Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. You will see it often when a pro, for example, will eliminate his 4 iron from the set and they may strengthen their 5 iron a degree or two and weaken their 3 iron a degree or two to even out the gaps. Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW When you start messing around with the hozzels and stress on clubs you need to know what you are doing. Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS. Epoxy Curing Times for Golf Clubs, Work Life and Shear Strength. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. Not a dispute with the OP, maybe even validation, but what about head style? That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. It has been working really well for me. Can I bend my irons strong? - Golf Clubs - Team Titleist FAQs The average golfer leaves 65 percent of all approach shots short of the green. This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. The basic fundamentals of striking a golf ball have not changed nearly as much as golf club technology, and those fundamentals have their roots dating back a hundred years to Bobby Jones and his peers or even further. In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. Perhaps the lighter weight is good, but how many people fit into these longer lengths? Odyssey #7 Tank, I got a set of Titleist 716 cb that are bent 2 degrees strong (they end up being 1 Degree weaker than my old z745 I believe). Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. 00bolt, September 12, 2016 in WRX Club Techs. If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. Thanks! I know it will increase the bounce. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights. And the opposite is true as the speed drops. Yes, the T200 can be bent 2 degrees flat and beyond 2 degrees upright Titleist manufactures heads 2 degrees upright which can be bent up to a further 2 degrees i.e up to 4 degrees from standard Please sign in to comment TUser January 21, 2020 at 08:09 AM Along the same lines, I got my new T200 irons late last year. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. Taking the destructive shot out of your game is key. if we move from a "high launch" to a Low launch shaft, who reduce loft by 2* we also lost 2* bounce. Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. Your link has been automatically embedded. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. I will also need to bend my irons 2 degrees flat according to a lie board. As far as lofts for amateurs go, I feel like long irons have to little difference between them. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X More ball speed helps them keep the ball in the air longer, which raises their maximum height. The one with a ballflight too high, is delivering the clubhead If the added ball speed of modern irons is not enough to achieve an ideal landing angle, I have to add loft. Would bending it serve the same result? Study those players and mimic their set-up and you will take another giant step toward playing better golf. Sitemap. Grant is a big-hitter off the tee, his driving distance ranking being fourth at Bermuda, 16th at the RSM and third at Pebble Beach, whilst he ranked highly for both his driving and greens during his KFT campaign. I reckon for every 1 degree off it takes about 250 off the spin. Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. (more on this down below). If you want to simply hit the ball further, find an iron that launches really high and spins really low, you will knuckle ball the shot a long ways, but odds are you will not be able to control yardages or stop the ball under most conditions. pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. 2023 Acushnet Company. So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. Bubba might better be able to answer that question, I know you can with the mb or cbs. How Long Do They Last, Driving Iron Advantages and Disadvantages, You are using clubs that are too tall for you (easy fix is to change the shaft length), You stand far away from the golf ball when making a swing. Seems that the article could have suggested that for higher swing speed players, the stronger lofts and COG location is necessary to not have the ball shoot straight up. The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover), Driver: Tour Edge EXS10.5, set 9.5;weights neutral ||FWs:CallaRogue4W + 7W, Hybrid: Calla Big Bertha OS4H at 22 ||Irons:Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW, Wedges*: Calla MD3:48MD4: 54, 58||Putter:Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. I know for people with slower swing speeds these crazy lofted, ultimate SGI irons are perfect. If you can get it in the air, no problem. But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. What Does 2 Degrees Flat Mean: Club Fitting Info to Help You In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. If experience still trumps explanations, simulations and printouts, print out some ebay listings there are lots of older sets with barely used 3 irons. TM TP EF Tour Issue 50* & 56*, 62* The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. make it a "digger" per say? It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. 50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*, Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck LOWER COG IN NEW IRONS REQUIRES LESS LOFT A LOT OF THE TIME TO GET THE SAME DISTANCE OF OLDER CLUBS WITH A HIGHER COG. (others have mentioned) I went to GG with my pops and hit the speedblade 9i for sheets and was hitting them 165-170why? What if I get those numbers with a 7-iron, or a 5-iron? I would never ever think of doing this on my own. I've never had a sand wedge bent. there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. Display as a link instead, Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. 5 Testers Needed! With the high bounce level of the stock G30's, losing some of that bounce by bending it strong is no sweat, but plenty of clubs have so little bounce that bending them strong leaves virtually nothing left in the bounce department, but bounce really only helps if you strike the ball a little on the fat side. Machines that adjust for all hosel positions, such asMitchell Angle Machinesare accurate regardless of the offset or hosel design of the golf club. In the fittings I do on a golf radar, I see all types of swings and golfers of different ability levels, so the variances in fittings can be dramatic. Forged titanium models are bendable as well due to their softer titanium structure. The bounce on the 3-iron is already 0 degrees, so will bending the club for a stronger loft make the bounce go negative? And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. Seriously. If the launch conditions work, what matter the number on the club? Well-regarded at home, he mixed his time in junior golf with the likes of Min Woo Lee and Curtis Luck, during which he finishedrunner-up at The Players Amateur before winning the elite Porter Cup and being part of the victorious three-man Australian team at the Eisenhower Trophy, played partly at El Chamaleon, scene of the Mayokaba events on the PGA Tour. Reset Password Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. You cannot paste images directly. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. Couldn't agree more with your entire post. I am purchasing new irons and am seriously considering getting the lofts 2* weak to create a 48* PW and 4* loft spacing. The main reason it is done on GolfWRX is so people can brag how far they hit their irons, generally with a passive brag. I have been reading that the more offset you add it will end up more of a hook shot. Display as a link instead, Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X An Aussie with a residence in Scottsdale, playing on a windy coastal track this is a great chance. I am 2 handicap, playing Scottish Links golf, smooth tempo, 80-90mph, pretty straight flight, shallow divot. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. The new grooves should also be mentioned as allowing the ball to slide up the face a little more compared to the older grooves. The idea of one ideal spin rate and launch angle for each iron doesnt really make sense to me. Thats basically what companies are doing anyway. If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood, Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use. Location. I have a 2 iron bent 2 strong to 16. Barring physical limitations, anyone can learn to hold the club properly, and you can practice it anywhere from the sofa in front of your TV to your office while on a call. But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch. TM TP UDi #1 w/ Diamana First, is it safe to have P790s bent that much? I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. I just switched from Wilson Ci9 to Taylormade TP MC, and Ive gained almost 15 yards despite the lofts being higher. Yes, thats essentially what Im asking. I have a 17-degree 4-wood, a 21-degree hybrid, a 26-degree hybrid, and a 29-degree iron as my longer (non-driver) clubs. Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. The concern is that all the fitting carts only have 6 irons and with the gaping on the 3, 4 and 5 irons lonely being 3* I am concerned on irons would react to my adjustments. Privacy Policy Learn how your comment data is processed. Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. I was being fitted for MP-4's and the ball flight with the kbs tour x was a little higher than i wanted so my fitter was able to bend it strong incrementally by 1 degree to flatten out the ball flight for me. Some get more spin, some less. Generally though as you decrease theloft of a club by one degree, you reduce its bounce a degree at the same time and if you increase the loft by one degree you increase the bounce by a degree. Paste as plain text instead, By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the c, Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. Mr Divots, good point on the higher swing speeds, but like anything else we still see higher speed guys still launch the ball too low, it just is not as common as the low swing speed player. probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. You must log in or register to reply here. Is that ok? Bending strong 2* decreases bounce by 2* and increases offset by about .75mm. It flies lower and that is about it. If the club has an abundance of bounce and/or a rounded leading edge, reducing bounce by 2* might not matter. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? As long as the spin rate is acceptable, the new irons, because of their lower center of gravity, are going to produce more speed off the face (due to the lower loft and lower COG) and more distance. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. Changing the lie angle of a club can help golfers more consistently hit shots off of the center of the clubface. PING Anser 4 Hybrid Approach play is the area of the game that leaves a lot to be desired amongst all levels of amateur golfers. Lots of good comments here. Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 Upload or insert images from URL. I know that for every degree strong I bend it, it will take a degree off the bounce. In addition, once a club is bent to a given specification, it will stay there until changed by an outside force of either bending again or striking a hard object. So going 2 strong will remove 2 degrees of bounce. TaylorMade Rsi TP 3-PW (1.5* strong) NS-Pro MOdus 3 tour130 X On 7/12/2018 at 3:15 PM, PoeKingShankspeare said: Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here, w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. Custom Specs - Mizuno Golf USA You may want to try searching if you need more info. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. Great article! Good info to pass along regarding COG. If jacking with strong lofting one you need to have a good fitter/ instructor work with you on your model suggestion and what will fit your swing. Will I be digging too much? If you think about it, a flatter lie would be toe down for your swing. With your height you obviously need to be fit properly. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. Bending Golf Clubs: 5 Facts & Fallacies Would they still be ideal? Often, golfers think they need to make more birdies in order to score better or become a better golfer, when in reality it is minimizing the bad shots and bad holes that can have more impact. My miss is hitting it fat, so I was especially concerned with how bending them strong would affect bounce. For this discussion, lets define proficiency as the level where you can reasonably expect to move the ball around the course efficiently and consistently enough to shoot 90 or better, though your own goals might be somewhere lower. Golfers who know this information will have a much easier time controlling their ball flight, hitting the center of the clubface more consistently. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM Callaway 2018 MB irons sorry, didnt mean increase loft. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? Feb 3, 2013. Surely getting consistent results and regular yardage gaps between clubs is more important than shooting for some ideal stats that may go against your natural swing? St Louis, MO. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Your link has been automatically embedded. In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65xStrong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400. It is a combination of those factors to get consistent results. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. What I havent seen mentioned is that iron shafts have changed a great deal and offer more low kick (higher launch/spin) options to be able to match with those lofts. If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. In turn creating around 12 more yds. What to consider when bending golf clubs. More photos from the event here. Generall, Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. A typical #6 iron on the Tour is 31* on loft but Dynamic loft is average only 20.2 Golfers can talk about shafts until they are blue in the face, and different shafts will make a difference in control, feel and sometimes launch and spin. Not only does it mess with the bounce/offset, but it's only a number on the sole if the club. 2023 Acushnet Company. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. When looking for clubs that fit your game, a professional club fitter will look at these factors down below to determine what their lie angle should be: I know this concept can be confusing, especially if you have never been fit for golf clubs before. Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc, Srixon Q Star Tour, Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options. Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X would 2 degrees be too much and change the club's characteristics too much? Great article. Sounds like it's a long iron. I teach golf on the Eastern side of Michigan where I am the Director of Instruction for three golf courses. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. The palms should be aligned, that is so that the two Vs formed by your thumb and forefinger should point in the same direction, whether a bit weak or strong from the neutral position. 16,822. Here are some of the facts, and fallacies, about club adjustment. When I was fitted for my 714 AP-2's it was the Titleist fitter who suggested we go 1 degree strong, but it take very little divot. Odyssey Pro #1 black Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. IG: golfer_scott I know my distances with the Ping set too well and I dont want to go through a whole season of trial-and-error with new irons, so would it make sense to have my new Mizuno irons bent to the old Ping specs? Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. Your email address will not be published. Assuming you are not altering the trajectory due to the conditions. JavaScript is disabled. In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. I dont pretend to be an expert, or even close. Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430 Still have questions? Not fact but I do think more offset makes it easier to draw the ball. By And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? "so, any advice, I keep air mailing greens with my PW from 140, this is really hurting my score. However, recent form has shown the real Grant, with back-to-back class efforts at Torrey Pines and Pebble Beach, where at the former he led an elite field after a first-round 64. traditional lofts ftw (let the technology be what determines added length/distance, not loft changes). 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent.
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